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1. •  
     CommentAuthorAaron MOrawk
   • CommentTimeJan 8th 2009

    
   This was born out of the last poll. Almost half of the respondents said "community" should be local music's goal for 2009. How do we go about doing that? Should we all accept a personal responsibility to encourage a stronger community? Should we create more community-centric events that belie styles, cliques and generations? Should we formally establish a new organization dedicated to growing a cohesive community within local music? Or is there something else? Discuss.
2. •  
     CommentAuthorjason spell.
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

    
   I voted "other". I think number one needs to be "stop being dicks to each other, on the board, and everywhere else".
   
   Respect!
   
   If you think up a sweet comment that's totally snarky and way witty and funny and makes someone else look dumb, think to yourself, "awesome, I'm totally funny" and laugh. Out loud. Its cool.
   But then don't post that comment. You really don't need everyone's approval of your superior intellect and sense of humor. Just know that you, yourself, are super funny. Hey, tell your friends about the comment you would have posted - in a message, on the phone, EYE ARE ELL, but don't post it.
   
   By posting dumb insults, it enhances the perception that MOrawk is a community of dicks trying to outwit each other. Because let's face it, who here has music friends that you try to encourage to come to MOrawk? What do they say back? "I used to go, but everyone was so elitist."
   
   It also scares away newbies, which makes us look like a cult. We want to include, not exclude. If you want to exclude, go join the KKK.
   
   Let's stop being dicks!! We can be funny and clever without being jerks to people. We can like certain music and appreciate that other people's tastes vary.
   
   Rant off - in summation, I'm just saying that the best way to build a community is to first encourage positivity towards each other.
3. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

    
   What you're talking about isn't "encouraging positivity", isn't essentially almost fascist positivity. I'm sorry, but a community where people cannot joke around with each other is not a community worth taking part in. Also, a community where people can't be honest with each other for fear or "being an elitist jerk", isn't even really a community whatsover. I mean, what, do we need to develop some scene police to go around policing comments made on this board to make sure whoever isn't being a dick? "Being a dick" is so subjective anyway that it's kind of ridiculous.
   
   Even your calling out of various members recently for mean comments could be considered being a dick/disrespectful by certain people. By calling people out, you're just starting petty drama which is only going to escalate into random disrespect, which is detrimental to community.
   
   I'm sorry, but just because some people complain that "morawk is a bunch of elitists", doesn't mean that we should actually listen to them and get rid of one of the reasons this board is worth it (joking around). In my personal experience, this claim is merely backlash against "indie"/hipster music anyway, and people I've heard making this claim (i obviously won't name names) are often worse than anything we say. The most disrespectful things I've heard regarding bands in springfield don't usually come from people on this board, or even people in bands here. It's usually the same type of people who are complaining about this site.
   
   besides, being inclusive is great and everything, but it's not the most important thing and shouldn't come at the expense of people being able to express themselves.
4. •  
     CommentAuthorjason spell.
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

    
   i'm not saying don't joke. i'm not saying don't mess with each other. i'm saying make the board "habitable" for newbies. tone it down a notch - not all out snark.
   
   and calling out others for being a dick is different - it indicates in full view that dickness for the sake of dickness isn't tolerated or welcomed.
   
   just try and be respectful, that's all i'm saying. go join code pink if you want to have freedom of expression
5. •  
     CommentAuthorjason spell.
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

    
   see, that's a joke, and by stating that as such, the comment is valid. i wouldn't just leave on that note, letting others think i'm being a dick.
6. •  
     CommentAuthorjason spell.
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

    
   maybe that's what we need - a new site. a site away from MOrawk that encourages more positivity. then MOrawk can continue to be what it is, a forum that maybe 50 people read and 20 post on. the MOrawkers would be happy in the non-change, and the extra site could start off on a fresh note, without preconceived ideas about it.
7. •  
     CommentAuthordr. mambo
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

    
   That's actually what Dan did with the original Moxie forum. It got to the point (not the same as this board, at least) that there wasn't much Moxie-oriented discussion so he moved the forum to a new domain (ffkatmff.com) and created a new Moxie - only forum. I thought that was a really good idea. But there differences a-plenty between this forum and the other (moxie).
8. •  
     CommentAuthorAaron MOrawk
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

    
   Speaking of other forums, the other local-centric board I frequent is the Ozark Anglers forums. They have an "Introduce Yourself" category at the top of the main board page, and just about everyone that signs on for the first time puts up a post. Sets a general positive vibe for the rest of the discussions.
9. •  
     CommentAuthorjason spell.
   • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

    
   yay! good idear
10. •  
      CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

     

    Posted By: jason spell.maybe that's what we need - a new site. a site away from MOrawk that encourages more positivity. then MOrawk can continue to be what it is, a forum that maybe 50 people read and 20 post on. the MOrawkers would be happy in the non-change, and the extra site could start off on a fresh note, without preconceived ideas about it.

    
    
    already on it. working on a redesign of thefourfour.com with a messageboard, featured shows, events calendar, band signups and more (possibly even a mini radio station deal that plays music from bands that have signed up based on the genre you select).
    
    the main reason we're having a board is b/c we run into people that want a board but don't want to go to morawk b/c of the "stigma" attached. which, yeah, but hey...more people willing to get involved=better "scene"
11. •  
      CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

     
    as far as how to build the community....
    
    - support of local radio that IS supporting local music. if they see more people listening and supporting at shows, they're going to do it more and more. radio is our friend and great promotion for not only the bands/shows/venues mentioned, but also just the awareness that stuff is going on ALL THE TIME.
    
    - more events ("thons" and "fests" and things like 50's prom night...all very successful for awareness of local music)
    
    - less clique-iness (you can only do the same thing with the same 35 people for so long…be open to new things, music, and people and we'll see a little thing called growth. growth in attendance, awareness…a.k.a. "scene")
    
    - more communication (talk, im, myspace, facebook, at a bar...whatever, it's all beneficial)
    
    - more attendance at other band's shows (preferably whether you like them or not. supporting is the point)
    
    - more effective promotion (10 flyers around downtown and a myspace bulletin or two IS NOT PROMOTING. flyer cars, go to businesses, get kicked out of the mall/school/campus parking lots...be agressive. shit, get crazy and talk to a radio station and buy some ads. we've actually found business cards through clubflyers.com or miamiflyers.com to be EXTREMELY effective b/c people don't toss it like a 4x6, they just stuff it in their pocket.)
    
    - promote sites that promote you/provide a place to build community and awareness. mention them at shows, on your website/myspace, etc. we're getting ready to do a rundown of all the local music sites we know about so stay tuned.
    
    but overall, it comes down to not being lazy or a dick (like jason is saying)
    
    more later
12. •  
      CommentAuthorjason spell.
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

     
    i love MOrawk- i was like the freaking 2nd or 3rd post ever on it back in 2001.
    
    but i agree, there is a stigma attached, unfortunately, due to "scene-ness", elitism, infighting, and out-witticism that has plagued the board in the past and continues to (albeit to a far lesser extent). we have had periods of no moderation (then it was just all out ridiculous/nonsense/assholeness), periods of heavy moderation (to the point where people got pissed off on a day to day basis about their posts being edited and eliminated), and i think we have a good balance between those extremes now. but even if we self-moderate, there may be too much of the stigma still there to get more newbies here, although i'm sure the occasional one will wander by.
    
    i for one want more new people on here to keep the board fresh, new, meet new people, have new bands form, have good transactions, keep our local music happening!, etc. but will it happen? its almost as if we'd have to ramp up MOrawk branded efforts with shows, stickers, and other ads to get more people here - i don't know if A-ron really wants to shoulder the financial burden and timesoak that would be. and by then, we'd still have to all play nicer to keep people here.
    
    maybe a forum overhaul? like a messageboard area where anything goes? i've seen other forums where many topics/attitudes/words even are off-limits to all but one area in which people can duke it out or whatever. but i don't know, that might encourage more hostility. i'm just typing words as i think them as a brainstorming exercise, and hopefully we can get good feedback on this and other ideas from everyone.
13. •  
      CommentAuthorjason spell.
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     

    Posted By: whiskeyismeas far as how to build the community....
    
    - less clique-iness (you can only do the same thing with the same 35 people for so long…be open to new things, music, and people and we'll see a little thing called growth. growth in attendance, awareness…a.k.a. "scene")
    

    
    
    this is what i'm getting at - open-ness! i think many of the problems we face are due to someone telling someone else "your music sucks" or "your spelling sucks" or "your poster is lame and sucks" or "your price is just outrageously sucky for that sucky amp" or "you suck".
    
    this kind of attitude, well, sucks.
14. •  
      CommentAuthorjason spell.
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    and, by the way, all the ideas you posted are great, scott
15. • CommentAuthorstoicsideman
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     

    Posted By: zombies!!![...]
    
    I'm sorry, but just because some people complain that "morawk is a bunch of elitists", doesn't mean that we should actually listen to them and get rid of one of the reasons this board is worth it (joking around). In my personal experience, this claim is merely backlash against "indie"/hipster music anyway, and people I've heard making this claim (i obviously won't name names) are often worse than anything we say. The most disrespectful things I've heard regarding bands in springfield don't usually come from people on this board, or even people in bands here. It's usually the same type of people who are complaining about this site.
    
    besides, being inclusive is great and everything, but it's not the most important thing and shouldn't come at the expense of people being able to express themselves.

    
    
    In other words, your opinions are valid ("I should be able to express myself freely by being a snarky dick if I want, fuck everybody else!"), but nobody else's is ("Morawk is full of people being snarky dicks to each other.")?
    
    That sentence was directed at you directly because it provides a great launching point for the rest of this message, which is not.
    
    I ignore most of the messages on this board precisely because of that attitude. I'm reminded of kids on the playground acting out and posturing because they can get away with it - there's no adult supervision. Every now and then I'll come across something useful - gear for sale or an upcoming event - but most of it is banter between people that seem to regard this space as their own private message board.
    
    The worst part is that I don't see that attitude changing. Morawk's member will continue to be snarky dicks to each other, potential new community members will see the snarky dickness, and sign on to another forum elsewhere... and the snarky dickness will continue to feed upon itself until the #1 hit on Google for "snarky dicks" will be morawk.com.
    
    Or maybe the general population on this site will reach adulthood - whoops, maybe I should say "grow up" instead. I'm not holding my breath and will continue winnowing the worthwhile information from the abundant snarky dickosity.
16. •  
      CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    props jason and aaron for the very very good slew of great discussion threads. for once this board is more than what stoicsideman just described. morawk is definately turning a corner and i hope it continues.
    
    hey aaron! what's the status of the reworking of the site?!
17. •  
      CommentAuthortyler
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

     

    Posted By: Aaron MOrawkSpeaking of other forums, the other local-centric board I frequent is the Ozark Anglers forums. They have an "Introduce Yourself" category at the top of the main board page, and just about everyone that signs on for the first time puts up a post. Sets a general positive vibe for the rest of the discussions.

    
    
    Yeah, man, when I joined the Air Force Enlisted Forums... as a pre-condition of your being admitted as a member, you had to complete an introductory post. That's how new members registered, it was just like being approved by an admin like tons of forums request anyway. Once I submitted it, within a couple hours I was registered and they posted what I submitted in the Introductions page. It really helps to get your foot in the door in a community.
18. • CommentAuthorD-Roz
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    I'd like to weigh in for a moment--as always, just an opinion...
    
    I think the number-one thing you can do to help the "Scene" is to stop talking about "the Scene." To my way of thinking it's too big-picture and detached. Build the scene by building what's immediately around you: your fellow musicians, the venues that bust ass to put bands onstage, the promoters who work to keep not-from-here talent coming through our difficult-to-schedule city. Most of all the musicians, though. You may not be into what some (or many) of them are doing, but check it out and pay respect to someone who is into doing the same thing you are, albeit in a different way. Talk to them about their instruments, whatever. Understand that they take pride in what they do. Remember that it all goes back to one thing: You all play music, music that pleases you. You're not that different.
    
    Sooner or later, guys in a reggae band will come to see a rock show, rock guys will check out local hip hop more, hip hop kids will wonder about the indie group at Randy Bacon the next night... perhaps this is pie-in-the-sky, but in my opinion, this is how a scene gets built. "Game recognizes game," if you will. The rest sprouts from there.
19. • CommentAuthorstoicsideman
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     

    Posted By: whiskeyismeprops jason and aaron for the very very good slew of great discussion threads. for once this board is more than what stoicsideman just described.

    
    
    Actually, this thread makes it twice not once. The "show etiquette" thread was the first time IIRC. Lots of goodwill, minimum snarkage. Props to Luke for starting that one, and Aaron for starting this one. Props to Jason Spell for the idea that spawned the first one, which spawned this one.
20. •  
      CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009 edited

     
    ah i get it, like the never ending polaroid....it just keep going forever
21. •  
      CommentAuthorshawn b maher
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    Everyone can talk all they want. If you remember the glory days of Morawk and bands getting along and shows doing well, the one thing that I can think of is Aaron busting his ass and spending way too much time and money on shows and promotion. He had some good helpers, but unfortunately people have to grow up and support themselves, and Morawk is not self-sustaining. I think it is going to take somebody to do stuff, and that's why I appreciate the Four Four putting on a fest and trying to be the doers.
    
    I also think that Chris (zombies!!!) is right, no matter if you want to admit it. It's like a great man once said, "Only god can judge me."
    
    Just to make this comment valid, I will now indicate that I am joking. I am in no way comparing myself to Tupac.
22. •  
      CommentAuthorafro
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    Bring back MoBalls.
23. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    No jason, i frequent other music boards besides morawk and see how insanely harsh they are to new people/"terrible bands". Here is quite nice. I've never heard anyone say "hey your band fucking sucks", but I've heard people say that right after they said "morawk is mean and pretentious." The underlying problem isn't snarkiness, it's the fact that this board is viewed as an indie music board in southwest missouri, which is an area where it's common to view indie music as pretentious bullshit, and those into it as elitist assholes. I know this because I've met some of the nicest people from morawk, only to hear people with supposedly normal musical tastes call them assholes for no reason.
    
    Do you seriously think that as "the community" grows (which it actually is, once you get away from morawk you see awesome little trends like way more houses doing shows that people go to) that everyone is going to be in love with everyone's band? that totally isn't going to happen.
    
    But yes, to answer your question, being an asshole is subjective. Do you think you were being an asshole when you called shawn out in that other thread? I was checking out morawk while I was at a friend's house to check my PMs and as I read that thread my friend said "that jason spell guy is a dick." He's never met you. I was just stating the obvious to one person valid criticism seems like snarkiness, and as much as you say COMMUNITY! COMMUNITY! that doesn't change this reality.
    
    besides, why focus on rhetoric anyway? To use the example of Shawn again. He's helped countless people over the years. Is that somehow negated when he made a supposedly mean comment in a thread? focus on people's actions, not what they say.
24. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    I'm also confused about the supporting radio=supporting local music thing. What are the chances that a band like el minotaur would ever get in heavy rotation at q 102? They're obviously talented enough, but they're not exactly the most accessible thing in the world.
25. • CommentAuthorD-Roz
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    The chances that a band such as El Minotaur would get played during the local-radio programming we're in charge of = 100%. Give us a couple of weeks to upload what we've got already, then feed us CDs. Seriously, anything local. Ten thousand people listen every Sunday night. That matters.
26. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    That would be awesome. I think everyone agrees that there needs to be a local radio show. I know about rock talk, it's a really cool thing.
27. • CommentAuthorD-Roz
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    It's the second hour of Rock Talk, actually. It's a solid hour of local music--no interviews or anything. We debuted it on the one-year anniversary show, but since we switched the studios we record in we need to transfer all the files. In the meantime, I've collected every local album I've reviewed for GO or Four Four that hasn't ended up lent to someone or locked in a desk drawer in the GO offices. I'll be soliciting more CDs the moment it becomes relevant. Stay tuned.
28. •  
      CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    on that note....get us your demos/cds of current or even past bands. we're not afraid to go retro
29. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    nathan wall get these guys your 18 19 right teen 20 demo. i want to hear motorbike on the radio.
30. •  
      CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2009

     
    MAGNUM PROJECT!