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1. •  
     CommentAuthorS-FOIL
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008 edited

    
   Below are the “rules” the S-FOIL boys try to follow…
   
   1-Give the all or most of the money to the DIY band(s) that are touring
   
   2-Watch the other band(s) set(s)… (sometimes with our “real jobs” all of us don’t get to stay the whole show but we usually have at least one of us stay for everyone)
   
   3-Be respectful of the time slot you are given to play: if given 15 mins, play 15 fuck’n mins not 17 mins (unless 17 mins is the title of one of your songs).
   
   4-You probably won’t like most of the bands you play with because we all listen with extra critical ears, but you can appreciate and respect the efforts made.
   a-You don’t need to stroke off the other band(s) if you think they suck but, don’t be a dick about the fact they suck…
   b-Try to find something nice to say or nothing at all… you can always say, “good set” whether you like the music or not it was/is good that they made an effort to play a set regardless of the execution of that set… I know it’s a stretch…. But you don’t have to be an ass, cause more then likely you’re not in the Foo Fighter or Def Leopard and even if you were you have no right to shit on someone’s parade… if they are play’n music at any level they have poured parts of their heart into what they are do’n so give them that moment.
   
   5-Be the “bigger” band, don’t let someone in another band that is be’n a dick cause you to react in a negative way…
   
   6-Load gear on and off stage in an orderly respectable fashion.
   a-Ask the band before and after if they need help, loading
   b-Move quickly to allow for less “down time”
   c-Pre-stage/Backline as much as possible… it can be a real “show stopper” if you can’t find your fuzz pedal and it takes like 20 mins to look through your bag, guitar case, back of your amp, your buddy’s shit… be organized!
   
   7-Make as little stage “noise” as possible
   a-No one cares if you can play “flight of the bumble bee” on your bass… so don’t
   b-Keep the sound check (on stage during the show) to a minimum
   i-If you have a pre show sound check, go crazy, but if it’s during the show, no one (even the sound guy) wants to know that you “think” that the lead vocals need 9 more db in the 200 Hz range in your wedge…
   ii-Let the sound person do there job, talk to them before you go on about what you want and like on stage. Let them know the “signal” for in show tweaks
   iii-Keep stage volume as low as possible while still get’n “your signature tone”
   iv-Bottom line know your shit before you start play’n
   
   8-Share equipment
   a-This is taken with a grain of salt… you may not want to let a band that just threw their bass through the drum kit borrow your $2300 Gibson EB-3 bass… but more then likely if an amp fries or a string is broken you can help a brother out
   b-Karma… it will come back…
   
   9-Be professional and HAVE A GOOD TIME!!! Your fuck’n play’n music not try’n to solve the worlds problems!
   
   This list isn’t in any particular order but ya get the idea…
   
   kick it,
   
   luke
2. •  
     CommentAuthorWilliam Adine
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    
   1. Don't Joke about Metallica.
   
   2. Don't Joke about your roadies being on tour with 'Paparoach.'
3. •  
     CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    
   that's a pretty good list. anyone have any more to contribute. i'm thinking of posting this to the blog with a link back to the discussion as well to help the newer bands checking the site as more of a resource thing.
4. •  
     CommentAuthorjason spell.
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    
   Luke - this is excellent.
   
   Nick - I'm rolling on the ground, laughing, knocking over mic stands.
5. •  
     CommentAuthorWilliam Adine
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    
   I think, the best thing you can do as a band is to stand up, up front, and support the bands on the bill. To me, that was always the most important thing and something I tried to do.
6. •  
     CommentAuthorDan Magnum
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    
   The biggest thing that irritates me (and not just local bands) is asking for money prior to the end of the show or bugging me or my staff about getting paid while I'm trying to deal with a tour manager. I am going to assume that club owners feel the same way about this as I do. If you're going to get paid, which is an assumption unless your band has a prior arrangement with the club/promoter, whoever is putting on the show will find you or someone from your band at the end of the night. On that same note, before the show starts it's a good idea to have the "business person" in your band introduce themselves to the club owner and/or promoter to settle at the end of the night, or, god forbid, if said club owner/promoter wants to put your band on more shows.
7. •  
     CommentAuthorjason spell.
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    
   This is a big one:
   
   If you are there to see the show, watch the show (up front!) and shut up.
   If you are there to drink/converse, go to the back.
8. •  
     CommentAuthorS-FOIL
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    

   Posted By: jason spell.
   If you are there "JUST" to drink/converse, go to the back.

   
   
   (i added the word just to your quote)
   
   or just go to the fuck'n piano bar... do not go to a S-FOIL show!
   
   We love when people drink and hang out... but come to see the band(s) and enjoy all other things that the venue offers... if you're not there for the RAWK, do something else...
   
   that's just my jaded view...
   
   kick it,
   
   luke
9. •  
     CommentAuthorshawn b maher
   • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

    
   Hell of a thread. This is something that so many people seemed to never have learned. What happened to the good ole days? It makes me feel old and crotchety.
10. •  
      CommentAuthorjason spell.
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    guest lists:
    
    you are a local band. you do not have an entourage.
11. •  
      CommentAuthorS-FOIL
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    yeah... i am old and crotchety...
    
    old guy moment
    - i remember a show we played with "the elite monk society" at the 423 club; ryan broke a string during one of your songs, i grabbed one of my guitars handed it to him then went to the back replaced the string and had the old jagmaster back in his hands by the next song... ahhh the good ole days... ahhh...
    
    kick it,
    
    luke
12. • CommentAuthordbweinhaus
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    re: respecting your assigned set length, same thing the other way around - if your set is supposed to be an hour, play the whole time. 35 minutes is not an hour set.
    
    re: getting paid - if only all promoters were as honest as magnum! it's almost never safe to assume you're getting paid (or getting paid what you expect), and even though the owner or promoter should pay you, it's your responsibility as the band to make sure you don't get hosed. much like dan said, work out all of the payment details with the club owner or promoter - or with the headlining band, if you're being contracted by the headliner to open - and i add that you should do all of this at the time of booking, and then confirm again on the day of the show. get it in writing if you can. and after that, don't bug the person holding the dollars until AFTER the last band has finished playing and the bar is closed!
    
    re: standing in front / standing in back - spell, i halfway disagree. if you're just there as an audience member, then i say it's your dollar, so stand wherever you want at the show and talk as loudly and as often as you want. obviously, you must remain aware that if you hang around near the front of the room, sipping your drink and talking, you're liable to get bumped around by people who do the right thing and dance near the front. however, if you're in an another band on the bill, i agree with you 100% - the show doesn't just take place on stage; if you're playing at all, you're playing all night - and that includes the role of backup dancer on the floor, right up front. i think the most essential part of this rule is that this applies to you whether you're the opener or the headliner - you see a lot of headliners who don't support their opening bands, which doesn't make sense, especially if you picked the opening band! karma.
    
    re: other personnel - if your sound tech, club manager, opener, et cetera is totally awesome and went beyond their required duties in making an awesome show, spread love. it can be extra pay, free drinks or food, inviting them to the post-show party... no matter what, don't let good work go unappreciated!
    
    re: post show party - have one. invite the other bands and get to know each other better, then play more shows together to your newly-shared fan base.
13. •  
      CommentAuthorAaron MOrawk
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    Also, re: guest lists – on the showgoer side, no one should expect to get in free unless explicitly told otherwise. And if local bands heed Jason's advice, there wouldn't be a bunch of people expecting to get in free. Yeah, you might think it sucks to have to pay $3 to see your best friend's band, but while you are there, there is also another band playing, maybe a sound guy, a barkeep, etc.
    
    While I've been let in to shows a bunch of times, I never automatically expected to and was always willing to pay or even chip in a few extra bucks if the touring band needed some more coverage.
14. •  
      CommentAuthorS-FOIL
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008 edited

     

    Posted By: dbweinhausre: post show party - have one. invite the other bands and get to know each other better, then play more shows together to your newly-shared fan base.

    
    
    in the old days we'd have "pizza & porn" after parties...
    
    we'd order a few pizza, play the most disgusting collection of porn ever and drink until we couldn't walk...
    
    this was a lot of fun and does build comradely... the porn usually didn't last to long but it defiantly was a great ice breaker... nothing seems that strange after watch'n a some dude make a chicks ass turn inside out...
    
    kick it,
    
    luke
15. •  
      CommentAuthorjason spell.
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008 edited

     
    If you wouldn't pay 3 bucks to see your friend's band, maybe you aren't friends. Doh!
    
    And Mr. Weinhaus - I halfway disagree with your halfway disagreement.
    
    This is a thread about etiquette - none of these are "rules" or "laws", they are merely suggestions for behavior. I suggest that people respect the band and fellow audience by not detracting from the show by being loud or obnoxious.
    
    Also, I think that because you and I come from different backgrounds, we have differing views - your bands have been very "have a good time! dance! party!", like music for fun's sake. You covered Carole King's Tapestry, fer cryin' out loud!
    
    All this is cool, but my bands have been very music for art/expression sake. So my opinion has been that people should take it in, but be polite about it. I can respect others jamming out and dancing on speakers and drinking and smoking and laughing if I'm at a show that is conducive to that (Like TRH or Nashville Pussy or something), but if I'm at a show with a very arty/expressive/dynamic band, that stuff is out of place.
16. •  
      CommentAuthorWilliam Adine
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    just curious, did any girls turn up to these things?
17. •  
      CommentAuthorS-FOIL
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008 edited

     

    Posted By: William Adinejust curious, did any girls turn up to these things?

    
    
    it was almost all girls... i'd say probably 1 to 3/4 ratio...
    
    it was always seen as a "this is so fucked up" kinda thing not a "oh, that is so hot" type of thing... which made it less creepy and more funny... don't get me wrong though, it was way creepy too.
    
    kick it,
    
    luke
18. •  
      CommentAuthortyler
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    The best shows I've ever played in my life have been with the hardcore bands. That is... not the metal or metalcore stuff, but just hardcore. High Hopes, Full Count (now Rebuild), Only The Brave... anytime we played with those bands, everyone was huge into each others music. We all knew the lyrics to everyone else's songs, sometimes we'd share the mic with other people in bands. For instance, Ben from Rebuild recording on one of our songs and since we generally played together or he would help fill in on bass on occasion, he'd always do his part at shows. We had mostly house shows at a garage, a few at the Blue Room, and played at The Foundry twice. Nothing compared to the house shows, absolutely nothing, especially playing at The Foundry... ugh.
    
    I'm getting offtrack but this is all geared towards the showing respect to your other bands. I never felt as part of a scene as I did when Guidelines started up. After a few practices we already had guys from other bands coming out to practices that were really stoked to see what we were doing. I made friends with those guys that will last a hell of a lot longer than any of these bands do and that's what the whole "scene" thing is meant to be for me.
    
    Ahhh, I miss the garage shows and blue room shows where people cared.
    
    
19. •  
      CommentAuthorblake walker
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    here's one worth mentioning: whether you're a musician or an observer--do not tell people how to enjoy the music. if you're on stage, shut your mouth and be happy that people are watching you play; do not demand that they dance and enjoy your set the way you want them to. if people want to dance, fucking awesome. if they don't feel like it, fucking awesome. there is no 'correct' way to enjoy music, you fascist.
20. •  
      CommentAuthorS-FOIL
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008 edited

     

    Posted By: blake walkerhere's one worth mentioning: whether you're a musician or an observer--do not tell people how to enjoy the music.

    
    
    i'm cool with that... although i think that if you are a musician involved with the show you should show some respect to the bands you are playing with... one little way of show'n that respect is be'n there to catch their set...
    
    

    Posted By: tylerI'm getting offtrack but this is all geared towards the showing respect to your other bands. I never felt as part of a scene as I did when Guidelines started up. After a few practices we already had guys from other bands coming out to practices that were really stoked to see what we were doing. I made friends with those guys that will last a hell of a lot longer than any of these bands do and that's what the whole "scene" thing is meant to be for me.

    
    
    You're right on track with the building of friendships... musically taste and preferences will change but if you can get that team of people together that want to help each other because they actually like and care for each other on a personal level you can really come up with something special. It’s amazing what can be accomplished when people have vested interest in people.
    
    The fourfourfest was a great start as well as this board, Springfield Bands Holding Hands and the what not…
    
    We as bands need actively to seek friendships with fellow musician; I think that would be one of the most beneficial things to build our scene.
    
    I know I’m a lot more apt to go and see a band or book a band that has a few of my friends then a band that I may actually enjoy more musically, just from the simple fact that I have a vested interest in that person.
    
    kick it,
    
    luke
21. •  
      CommentAuthordr. mambo
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008 edited

     

    Posted By: Aaron MOrawkYeah, you might think it sucks to have to pay $3 to see your best friend's band, but while you are there, there is also another band playing, maybe a sound guy, a barkeep, etc.

    
    
    This is true unless you're under 21 and living in Springfield. And myself, being a few months shy of 21, it's getting really obnoxious having to pay $8 to see my friend's bands. Considering I don't have a lot of money, and especially not enough to comfortably pay this every week (or every other week more like).
    
    So yeah, paying $3 to see my friend's band, awesome. But since the bar ban, it doesn't exactly work out like that. But in a few months I probably won't even give a shit.
22. •  
      CommentAuthorwhiskeyisme
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    wow. great thread.
    hopefully i'll get a few more mins to add a few points to this
23. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    i wish the police would stop busting up house shows.
24. • CommentAuthorTodd
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    Luke is pretty much right on and covered everything I would have said.
    
    One thing that has always bothered me, though: if you're a LOCAL band playing in your own town, you DO NOT GET A GODDAMNED GUARANTEE. I cannot believe that there are some fuckers that do that in this town, especially when there is a touring band on the bill.
25. • CommentAuthorTodd
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     

    Posted By: zombies!!!i wish the police would stop busting up house shows.

    
    
    i was actually glad they busted up the last one at the Goat's Lodge. it's a lot easier to get everybody to go home when there's a cop there telling them to do so.
26. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    I wasn't really thinking about the last one. I just remember a few at Danny from Knife*Death's house this summer that were getting busted so early that not all the bands got to play. I definitely relate to wanting an easy way to get a bunch of people to leave your house.
27. •  
      CommentAuthorkeenan
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008 edited

     
    iii-Keep stage volume as low as possible while still get’n “your signature tone”
    
    there are definitely exceptions to this rule. we have played in many dive bars where the "PA" is not loud enough to for us or the audience to hear the guitars over Warren's un-mic'ed drums. Some would say, just have the drummer play quieter; but those people would be wrong. In those cases, I prefer to crank my amp and tell the "sound guy" (usually just some friend of a bartender who is "working" for free beer) to just turn off my instrument mic.
28. •  
      CommentAuthorS-FOIL
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     

    Posted By: keenaniii-Keep stage volume as low as possible while still get’n “your signature tone”
    
    there are definitely exceptions to this rule. we have played in many dive bars where the "PA" is not loud enough to for us or the audience to hear the guitars over Warren's un-mic'ed drums. Some would say, just have the drummer play quieter; but those people would be wrong. In those cases, I prefer to crank my amp and tell the "sound guy" (usually just some friend of a bartender who is "working" for free beer) to just turn off my instrument mic.

    
    
    sure there are different views on this... and a lot of different factors that go in to it... my 2 cents let the sound guy push the sound and keep the stage volume as low as possible, that way the sound guy can actually mix the group instead of haven't to go off the volume on the stage... no PA will be a big factor in boost'n the stage volume...
    
    kick it,
    
    luke
29. • CommentAuthorzombies!!!
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    the problem with that is you're assuming the sound person knows what they're doing/how to mix your band. that isn't always the case.
    
    i think there has to be exceptions to a lot of this, otherwise you're going to have people getting pissed off that people are breaking rules when the rules have to be broken ie: someone not watching someone else's set because they couldn't get off work early enough.
30. • CommentAuthorD-Roz
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008

     
    You guys fucking rock. This is my favorite thread on MoRawk ever... and now it's a post on the site. Keep it up, guys. See if we get some learnin' goin' on.